Reiki Radio Interview with Frans Stiene Transcript
Transcript of Frans Stiene's Radio interview by Yolanda Williams from Reiki Radio, discussing Frans' latest book, "The Inner Heart of Reiki: Rediscovering Your True Self." (Edited for brevity and clarity.)
Yolanda: Hello everyone; welcome to Reiki Radio. Today we have a special guest: Frans Stiene, author of "The Inner Heart of Reiki: Rediscovering Your True Self." Frans, you are based in Australia?
Frans: Indeed, Australia. But I teach all over the world, so I feel more like a world citizen.
Yolanda: Frans is also co-founder of The International House of Reiki. Frans, thank you for being here.
Frans: Thank you for inviting me.
Yolanda: It’s a pleasure to have you. "The Inner Heart of Reiki: Rediscovering Your True Self" really resonated with me and my personal practice, in so many things that I had not heard before. What has your journey with Reiki been? How did you start on this path?
Frans: Well, it's an interesting journey; I was never really into all of this. I am originally from the Netherlands and when I was 30, we moved to India. I suffered from age 16 onwards with chronic back problems and the doctor said it's only going to get worse when I get older. And it did. When we were in the Himalayas, I was lying in bed and my partner was hiking and I said it's crazy; I am only 30 and I can hardly walk and carry my backpack. At that time I made the decision to do something for myself, and one thing turned into another. I met a local healer who did something for me and afterwards I just wanted to read spiritual books. One was about Reiki and later I met a Reiki teacher in Katmandu, Nepal and did my first classes there. After a while we opened up a Reiki center in Darjeeling, India, and did volunteer treatments over there on the local community.
Yolanda: Your new book is so much about growth and journey and learning about true self. In your personal practice, what have you discovered Reiki to mean or to be? What does it mean to you?
Frans: For me it actually is really simple. If I really think about it, it goes back to the precepts - that I feel less angry in my life, I feel less worried in my life, I feel or have become more kind, so more true to my way and my being. So it's really more about embodying of the precepts. I feel it has created a lighter Frans and a happier Frans, and through that my physical body has responded to it.
Yolanda: In the book you talk about the five precepts but you also spoke about five signposts of rediscovering the true self. I wondered if you could share some more about that with us.
Frans: One of the really interesting things to me about Mikao Usui is that there is so much more to know about him and his teachings. For example, it is said that Mrs. Takata said that while she was in Japan, she met with some really traditional Reiki teachers who studied with Mikao Usui, and that she said it was highly complex. It required years of training and is closely intertwined with religious practices. From this perspective, we can see that - if it was really closely intertwined with these religious practices - that it really was about you having a religious experience and from this religious experience, we can therefore help other people. Not to say that the system of Reiki is religious, but I always see that for me to help others I need to be a clear vehicle, and if I am not a clear vehicle than it becomes very difficult.
The five signposts are the precepts, meditations, hands on healing, symbols and mantras, and the initiation, sometimes called attunement or reiju. I call them signposts because they are all pointers - pointing to our essence, our Reiki, our true self. Often we see it as very external, as if Reiki hangs somewhere outside in the sky. But if we look deeper and apply these signposts as a daily practice, we start to rediscover - I am spiritual energy, I am Reiki, I am my true self - that it is not something external.
Yolanda: Your book speaks a lot about that and it's so beautifully done. Given the title, at first I thought, this will be helpful for Reiki practitioners. But after reading it, I realize it's a great book for anyone who is interested in connecting with themselves in a deeper level or in rediscovering what you call true self. In your experience and what you are expressing in the book, what does that mean to you, your true self?
Frans: I really like Mikao Usui's metaphor: in his Reiki level 3, he used a symbol and a mantra and if you literally translate it, it's called "great bright light." I had a discussion this morning with my teacher in Japan about the true self; when we talk about the true self, sometimes that can be a bit difficult for people because it's such a wide subject. We can say, "What does it mean?" and then we can debate about it. In Japanese they have a word for it - he said sometimes when we talk too much about the true self we come to something that in Japanese is called "Keron." If you translate this, it means a useless argument. (laughs) Because sometimes we say, "No, this is the true self" and another person says, "No this is the true self." And we can kind of get carried away.
But what is wonderful to see in the teachings of Mika Usui and what was very common at the time in Japanese esoteric teachings, is that instead of saying true self we can use a metaphor, like a symbolic representation of the true self. And a symbolic representation of the true self is - the great bright light! I like this because we cannot always do hands on healing. Imagine driving a car - you cannot put your hands on your eyes to do hands on healing. We cannot always chant a mantra - when I am talking to you, I cannot chant a mantra. We cannot always receive an initiation; we cannot always recite a precept. But we can always rest our mind in that great bright light. And that great bright light is the light of the universe where there is no beginning and end. So if we see it as there is no beginning and end, then Yolanda's great bright light is touching my great bright light at the same time. In fact, we are all touching each other at the same time, in that space of love and compassion.
Yolanda: Right, so that goes into non-duality and recognizes our connectedness and Oneness. A lot of people are focused on the healing aspect and you wrote about the meaning of healing: how our mind and body and energy all tie into that. I wondered if you can share some information with us about that.
Frans: In Japanese it's called "san mitsu" and it means mind, body, and speech. Speech is sometimes it is also seen as energy; so we can say mind, body, and energy. You know if you see an angry person walking; this is in the mind, and we can see it in the body. The body is really tight, really tense, and therefore it's in their energy. For me they are all interconnected, but the most important thing is the mind. And I think this is not often talked about in the system of Reiki. We often talk about energy - maybe we see color, or feel some tingling, heat or some other sensation - but in essence for me it's really about mind.
And we can really clearly see that in Mikao Usui's system if we look at the precepts: do not anger, do not worry, be grateful, be true to your way and your being, and show compassion to yourself and others. That is really about the mind - it doesn't say feel energy. It doesn't say put your hands on someone; it's really all about the mind. If we look at the mantras CKR, SHK, HSZSN, DKM from the traditional Japanese perspective, they also all point towards the state of mind. State of mind is so important because if my mind is calm, my energy is calm. If my mind is calm, my body becomes more calm. And if I want to help someone and my mind is agitated during the treatment or I am constantly judging, labeling, analyzing, then it means my mind is constantly busy and it also means my energy is always busy. So therefore, for my client to start to relax and feel peaceful and to go into their great bright light, it will be very difficult.
Yolanda: In my experience, Reiki is a very meditative practice. You also talked about the power of meditation and importance of this practice in connection to building our spiritual energy and having that self connection. Can you talk a bit about that aspect of meditation and how that ties into all of this?
Frans: I could try something - it is a little bit hard on radio and internet - but I do this often when I give a live talk. We have the precepts and often people say recite the precepts three times. For me, reciting is really wonderful and can help, but reciting is very different than chanting it, really in a meditative space. So, a little experiment if you don't mind Yolanda: I will recite the presets three times in Japanese and then I will chant it and see if you feel a difference. I will chant it with my mind a little bit different. When I recite it, in my mind I'll think about what I am going to do tonight and see if we can find a difference.
Frans recites precepts 3 times-
Kyo dake wa
Gyo o hage me
Hito ni shin-setsu ni
So it’s reciting; but if I chant it, for me it becomes something quite different. So here I go. And now I am concentrating in my mind even more so.
Frans chanting precepts, focused, 3 times-
Kyo dake wa
Gyo o hage me
Hito ni shin-setsu ni
So, I always feel that we kind of all know that if I drive a car and I am distracted, then I probably am more likely to have an accident. I am still driving the car but if I am really focused, then car driving becomes something quite different. Therefore if I do hands on healing and my mind is all over the place, therefore my energy is all over the place. But if my mind is really focused during the treatment or during chanting the precepts, then it becomes more a meditative practice. Could you feel the difference?
Yolanda: Yes, listening to you the first time, I naturally closed my eyes and connected with it... I did feel something. But I didn't really realize what a significant difference until you started chanting. Then it felt bigger, like this full embodiment; I could feel the energy in my entire space. It made a big difference. You talk about non-duality without separation and how we are connected; there was a very clear difference.
Frans: For me the most important thing really is teaching about Mikao Usui. A lot of people focus on Hayashi and Mrs. Takata, but my main focus is really about Mikao Usui. Mikao Usui went to Mount Kurama and meditated for 21 days without water and food and then he really connected to that Reiki within himself. He is the example. My teacher in Japan keeps emphasizing: if Mikao Usui connected to Reiki by doing meditation practices, then we have to do exactly the same thing. We cannot just say, "Oh throw a magic symbol in the air." We have to go through the same process and it's a wonderful process.
We look at symbols and mantras; for example, the Japanese word for Reiki level 2 is Okuden. Okuden means inner or hidden teachings and the word itself already says - hidden or inner teachings! It's not something hidden in the symbols or hidden in the cupboard; it's actually pointing out traditionally what is hidden inside of ourselves. And that is something we need to rediscover. So therefore, we need to use those symbols and mantras internally, because I need to find what is hidden inside of myself. But if I use symbols and mantras externally, then it becomes much harder to find what is hidden internally, within.
Yolanda: It's so great that you bring this up. I think a lot of people have an idea that if they get a Reiki attunement or just come to a class, a button is pushed and you don't have to do any practice after that. Like something was turned on and that’s it - nothing more to it. You talked about this a lot: benefits of our personal practice, dedicated practice and how it helps us to discover our own way. That was one of the things I have to say in reading your book; I'm so thankful that someone said this...we have certain practices that can help us to discover our own way. The key was the importance of personal practice and how it helps us to understand and discover ourselves, far beyond what we may be taught in class.
Frans: I think that is a really important element for me and my teachings. That's one of the reasons that I am going to Japan in May for three weeks to train with my teacher - actually two teachers. One week with one and two weeks with another. It will be one-on-one teaching; we will go in the mountains and both of these teachers are saying, "OK we want to know what Mikao Usui was doing so we have to go into the mountains, we have to meditate, we have to really find that Reiki within ourselves." There is no magic button we can press and this is another thing you often hear in the Reiki community or on forums. A lot of people say, "Oh, I did Reiki 1, 2, or 3 few years ago and I feel it's not working anymore; I need to be reattuned." It's not necessarily that they need to be reattuned; that just means practice more!
Or for example, we see, "Can you send me healing?" A lot of people ask for healing; that is wonderful - don't get me wrong. It's nice to receive healing. But it's also for me very much a thing where we always look externally instead of saying, "Let me look deep inside of me and can I find that healing power within myself?" For me the whole system of Reiki is really about empowering yourself. For example the Reiki 3 symbol and mantra DKM, which it's said means empowerment, has become very externalized: "Oh, you only use it for empowerment on someone." But traditionally it was about self-empowerment. So the symbol and mantra was about you empowering yourself, because I cannot empower other people if I haven't empowered myself. I always say in class I cannot give you tea if I don't have tea; it's impossible. We all know I cannot give love and compassion if I am not really loving and compassionate to myself.
Yolanda: Right, and even with that you talked about intimacy, which I thought very interesting to read. You talked about intimacy and of being Reiki versus doing Reiki; can you talk some more about that?
Frans: Well intimacy is first of all for me to really find that inner great bright light. Because we have covered it up with all these layers of worries and fears: “Oh, I cannot do this and that.” And we are not intimate with ourselves. What I mean by that is, we have to be really honest with ourselves. We have to look beyond that ego thing, the "I" thing. So it’s very, very intimate. And when we work with someone else, we have to be intimate with them. I think sometimes we get bit confused that intimate means sex, but I am not talking about sex. Intimacy is just so close that we come back to that non dual space, that Oneness space, you know. Then we are really intimate. And if you really think about it, if you lay on the table and I place my hands on you to do some hands on healing, then most of the time the observer might say, “Frans is doing hands on healing on Yolanda” or “Frans is touching Yolanda.” But if you really look carefully then you are touching me at the same time, right? Because your body is touching my hand at the same time your energy is touching me and my energy is touching you. So that's really that intimacy; we see that if we look carefully, it is an intimate dance where not only is Frans touching Yolanda, but Yolanda is also touching Frans.
Yolanda: It reminds me of sections of the book; you were talking about protection and there are a lot of ideas around that - what we give or pick up energetically from other people. Even outside of Reiki just in our daily interactions we are exchanging energies and connecting with each other, so I don't think it’s just in the realm of having a session. But it reminded me of the this session I had not long ago. You spoke about in your book that someone might see something like smoke coming out of a person’s face; they may think it’s bad and they label this way. I had a session and I saw something that we may look at and say it's not so pretty. But I remembered because a teacher of mine had told me to see the light in all things, because everything is light. And you know what we hold in mind transforms things energetically, like energy we put into it, and how we hold it. And how we perceive it affects what it becomes.
Frans: Yeah, yeah, you fell away for a second. (laughs) That's okay.
Yolanda : Oh sorry (laughs). So it was interesting the way you spoke of protection. I was wondering if you could talk about that, and us recognizing the light within us - how that in of that itself is protection.
Frans: Yeah, we can always build up a barrier. So if I do a treatment on someone and I have to protect myself, then in a way I am creating a barrier between me and my client. And if I build the barrier, then the barrier can be touched even if it's a mind barrier. If there is no barrier and I am just shining like the sun, then nothing can touch. I cannot damage the sunlight. I cannot cut it. I cannot hurt it. I cannot blow it up. It's untouchable and yet we benefit from it. So if we become that light, we will realize the same thing; there is no need for protection. We can just be very open and expanded; this is why I think it's so important in the system of Reiki.
Also we can see that in level 1 where traditionally you are taught Joshin Kokyo Ho, which is a breathing meditation practice into the Hara, just below your belly button. If we do that, then we become really stable. We become really grounded and centered. In the second level, the first symbol, if you visualize it, it's like a circle which goes inwards. Then again our mind goes inwards and actually it becomes more grounding, so the first symbol and mantra also has a very grounding nature to it. And I think that is so important as a practitioner or as a teacher, to make sure that we are centered and grounded because then we actually start to realize over time that we don't have to disconnect ourselves. Because it's impossible, because we are always interconnected already, you know.
Yolanda: Right. Another interesting thing that you bring up is, in this realm, I think a lot of people focus a lot in terms of chakras. They focus more on their upper chakras. People connect that idea to just their spiritual energy and kind of negate the grounding aspect. Could you talk about how it is beneficial to us being grounded and being here, centered and connected?
Frans: One of my teaching tools - I like teaching tools, either a visual or teaching stories - and one of the teaching tools I always travel around with is Weeble Wobble. Do you know those - Weebles Wobble but they don't fall? (Yolanda laughs.) In class I always put the Weeble Wobble on the table and give it a whack. It starts to wobble and comes back up and I ask the students why it isn't falling over. And they see - "Oh, because the weight is at the bottom!" So I say this normally happens in our lives: something happens, a client says something or during the treatment we see something, feel or experience something and we fall over. And we stay worried and fearful and angry and upset for a day, a week or 6 months, and then finally we get back up again a little bit .
But if we are like a Weeble Wobble, then if we fall, very quickly we come back up again. And that comes only if we really have a strong foundation, that our mind and energy is really at the bottom of our body. We can see that too in nature. For example, Mikao Usui went into the mountains to really connect to the Reiki, to his true self. But the true self is also the mountain, is also the tree and in Japanese spiritual teachings, the mountain is also seen as Reiki. If we look at, for example, the name Mikao Usui got after he died. (In Japan after you die, afterwards you get a name.) The first two characters of his name is "Reisan," which means "mountain of Rei - spirit." Therefore we also need to become like a mountain…stable like a mountain so that we can grow really high and reach heaven.
Yolanda: That makes perfect sense. Again it's one of those things you don't hear in general conversation about Reiki. There is so much in your book that you touch on, beneficial not only to the practitioner, but anyone who is really looking to connect with themselves on a deeper level. From your book and thinking about how many different practices and teachings there are out there, it seems clear that part of your journey is very focused on understanding what the system of Reiki really is about as practiced by Usui. With all you have learned and experienced over the years, what would you want people to know and understand about Reiki? What is that takeaway you usually hope that you instill in your students?
Frans: One of the most important things I see more and more in my classes, specifically also the deeper I go in my personal practice, is that they can really feel that groundedness and centeredness, but also that they really have a direct experience of that non-dual space. We can talk for hours about non-duality or Oneness, but within particularly our Reiki 3 class, the way it's structured and some practices we do with hands on healing, with symbols and mantras, most of us gain a very direct experience of this non-duality. And they get this really direct experience of "Being Reiki" instead of "Doing Reiki," and that is something I think lot of students take away. For example, just teaching in Canada, one lady in class had done, like you, maybe 6-7 different Reiki teacher classes with Japanese teachers, with western teachers. When we were practicing the attunements and initiations or reiju with each other, her comment was, "I have never felt anything like this before; this is really taking me to a very different place of intimacy, of non-duality, Oneness." And she said this helps her to also understand that it's not just about doing a ritual but it's actually about way of life - that we can lead a way of life of being intimate with nature, intimate with our surroundings in that non-dual space of love and compassion and kindness.
Yolanda: Interesting; even that comment brings you all the way back to the precepts or Reiki principles.
Frans: Yeah, absolutely.
Yolanda: It's interesting, the Reiki principles, because I think a lot of times they are taught as just to memorize. From what you have shared, it's something more to embody, to really become, and it does become a way of life. When I first learned, I would joke that I became mantras throughout my day. Going through different experiences in life, connected with energy of whichever one fits that moment. But one of the things that also comes up a lot around Reiki, is the distant sessions. It's really interesting what you wrote about that as far as whether or not you need proxy and connecting to that "Being Reiki," talking about that Oneness. Could you share your ideas around that in distance practice?
Frans: What is really interesting is the mantra of HSZSN, we can translate that as “my original nature is a non-dual thought” or in other words, “I am a non-dual thought.” So it doesn't say anything about distance; it's really saying about non-dual thought of that Oneness, that interconnectedness. And in that Oneness space, if we really set that intent of love and compassion and kindness – again really about the precepts or not being angry or not being worried – then in a way we don't really need permission. I always say if I walk in the street and I see someone walking towards me, I am not going to stop them and say, “Excuse me - do you mind if I just do some hands on healing on you?” I think in some traditions it's really about “doing” Reiki, so you kind of are judging and labeling.
Say you do some distance healing on someone and you label and judge and distinguish: “this is good, this is bad, this needs an emotional healing symbol, this needs some extra power.” So, we are also kind of “doing” something to someone, and I think if we are doing something to someone, in a way we need to have certain permission. But if we are just “being Reiki” and we let go of the doing - and this is again where I like the Reiki 3 symbol and mantra, "The great bright light" - then we are like the sun. The sun doesn't ask permission to shine. The sun also doesn't say, “Oh that person over there needs two rays of sun and the person over there needs ten rays of sunshine and the person over there gets nothing. (Yolanda and Frans laugh) The sun is just shining her light. But we take according to what we need.
This also is pointed out in the word Reiki itself. Within the word "Rei"- spiritual, we find the kanji of rain - in a way it's a non dual rain. If it rains, the rain is not going to say, “I am going to rain two drops on that little flower over there and I am going to rain 6 buckets on the big tree. The rain is just raining, without any judging, labeling, or distinguishing. And the trees, the shrubs, the people, the animals take accordingly. If I label and judge, then the healing is little bit limited - if I walk in the street, I cannot touch everybody and say, “Excuse me, can I do some hands on healing? Excuse me, excuse me….” I will be in trouble. But I can walk around in this great bright light of no anger, no worry, no fear, being grateful, being kind and compassionate. And the kind and compassionate, no anger, no worry, brightness space, has huge energetic potential. People can start to heal themselves - that makes sense, a little bit?
Yolanda: That makes perfect sense; interesting, the first time I had an experience with that was prior to Reiki. I didn't know anything about energy work and I met a woman who was...Buddhist…. And as you got closer to this woman, you could literally feel your energy shifting; there was something radiating off of this woman. You just felt like you are melting, and just at peace coming closer and closer into her space. I will never forget that and when I read what you were talking about in your book and what you just shared, that's what it reminded me of.
Frans: Absolutely, and that we can see that in people like Dalai Lama, Thich Nhat Hanh. When I was in Japan in 2003, I met a Buddhist priest who in Japan was seen as a living Buddha. Just talking to him for five minutes, it was amazing - the energy, and the shifts, and the healing. I thought I received ten initiations and five treatments in one go. He was like the 7 Eleven; he was open 24 hours a day (Yolanda laughs). Most exciting was the next day when I was thinking about it. And I thought, “Wow he's just like you and me.” Just like any other human being, which means we all have the potential within us; we just have to remember it. And this is why Mikao Usui said, okay - meditate upon the precepts, see hands on healing as meditation, meditate on the mantras, meditate on the symbols, meditate the breathing practices like Joshin kokyo ho and Hatsurei Ho, do the meditation practice of initiation or reiju or attunement. And by applying those, then we can all be in this beautiful great bright light and I think that really would make a huge difference in the world. I mean hands on healing on other people of course can make a difference in the world. But the world will become very different if we all start to embody the precepts.
Yolanda: Yes, I think it all comes back to us doing work on ourselves, recognizing that light in ourselves, strengthening that light and spreading it out, which you have done in this book. I am very thankful that I got to talk to you. There is so much you have discussed in the book, there is no way we would have covered it in one hour. (Frans and Yolanda laugh) People, get the book! Read the book; it does have so much good information. And one of the things I wanted to share before we go today is your workshops. You have Reiki classes and workshops; what do you offer and where you will be in the next few months?
Frans: Actually, I am starting this Friday, teaching in Sonoma in California Shinpiden Reiki 3 class. They are three day classes, but three day classes for me are really the beginning. After that we hold hands with each other and we walk that path of Mikao Usui’s teachings. Also I do what I call a Reiki Play Day. It is a one day class where we just experiment with what Mikao Usui’s teachings were about. I don't really focus a lot on the historical side. We can talk about history ‘til we are blue in the face, but for me the most important thing is the direct experience of the precepts or having the direct experience of the true self or the great bright light. I will be in Cincinnati in a week's time, then I am doing three 4 day weekend retreats - one in California, one in Philadelphia - that's in September - and one in June in Massachusetts. Then I will be teaching in New York and in some other places.
Yolanda: What is the best way for people to connect with you?
Frans: You can look at my website, http://www.ihreiki.com. We have new blogs coming up; we have one of the biggest blog sections on the web about the system of Reiki. We have the IHReiki Facebook page and also Frans Stiene Facebook page, where it is a little bit more personal, but you can look up that as well.
Yolanda: And when you leave here you will be teaching back in Europe again, or are you taking a break?
Frans: Actually this has been a very busy time. After this trip I will be home in Australia for a week and then most of May in Japan for my own personal training. Because I also believe that as a teacher we also still need to have teachers; we have to go deeper. That's one of my personal practices; so going into the mountains and my teachers are Tendai priests and Shugendo priests. I trained with them and my focus for those trainings is really about, what would have Mikao Usui practiced himself when he was undergoing his own training? And for me to see that, because if we look at CKR, SHK, HSZSN, DKM for example, we see very clear traces to Japanese esoteric teachings - that is what I am exploring a lot for myself. But again, most important for me is to have that direct experience.
And so after three weeks in May in Japan, I will be back in June for the retreat in Massachusetts and Shinpiden training in New York. Then I am going back to Australia and then I teach a retreat north of Australia that is wonderful. It's on the beach so that's one of my favorite retreat places there. So it's a busy year this year, but I love it. And another thing I really like is creating this beautiful Reiki community on a global level, where we communicate and share and practice together.
Yolanda: Yeah, that's a beautiful thing. And one of the things too that I wanted to ask before you go - again the title of the book is “The Inner Heart of Reiki: Rediscovering Your True Self.” Is that really, in your opinion, what Reiki is all about - is it ultimately about us discovering ourselves? And how would you even describe Reiki to someone who is curious about it and has never had any experience with it?
Frans: Normally, if I say it in a very simple way, I might say that the system of Reiki is a spiritual practice. - sometimes I can leave the spiritual out – a practice to rediscover your true self. And they might say, “What does it mean, your true self?” And I might say well, that means we that we lead a life that is less angry, less worried, less fearful, more grateful, more true to our way and more compassionate. It’s very simple in a way, but very profound to actually practice. They might say, “How do you do it, how do you practice?” I might say, well within it we have precepts, hands on healing, meditation on symbols and mantras and initiation to help us to remember this true self
Frans: And from this true self, from rediscovering this great bright light - we all know, the closer to the light we go, the more compassion we have, the more energy we have, from this rediscovering true self.
Oh, I think you fell away again...
Yolanda: Oh you are back again - for a moment I thought, oh we lost him!
Frans: (laughs) We all are little bit lost sometimes; that's why we need to practice the system of Reiki.
Yolanda: I agree. I am very thankful for Reiki, which is why I started the podcast: to create community around us and open conversations around it, because it opened the doorway for me to start to look at who I am, and connect. I think it's such a beautiful practice for that reason; with everything you have shared today - you have said so much about the practice and how it can be used. So I am very thankful for you coming on today and hopefully you will come back when you have another book to share.
Frans: I am working on one book already, so that's good (laughs).
Yolanda: Are you! Really! This book just came out in October!
Frans: I know. I just felt that I have more things to say and I think also there is so much more hidden within Japan itself about Mikao Usui, that slowly I think has come forward. So it will be an interesting time, I think. But I must say, that you ask wonderful questions
Yolanda: Oh thank you; thank you so much. I really appreciate you being here and clearly spreading more lights for all of us. So thank you so much.