A question for you about Reiki Treatments

Today we wanted to post a question to see what you think! So, put your answers in the comment section below, if you like.

Below are presented two hands on healing sessions. Which one do you think will be the most profound one and why?

Session 1:
The practitioner sees himself as a channel. He believes that the Reiki is somewhere outside of himself hanging in the sky above him. When he starts the healing he feels that the Reiki comes in from above him into his crown going through his body and out through his hands into his client. He also sees the client as external from himself. In summary, he sees the healing as three separate elements; himself, the client and the Reiki.

Session 2:
The practitioner sees herself as one with Reiki, it is nothing separate, she is the Reiki and everything outside of her is also Reiki. She also sees her client from this view point, so she is the client and the client is also her and Reiki - no separation, but oneness.
In summary, when she places her hands on her client she doesn't see it as "doing Reiki" or "channeling Reiki" but just "Being Reiki".

And if this puts you in the mood for a Reiki treatment remember you can always...Book an in-person or distance Reiki treatment with Frans Stiene


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  1. by Rebecca Holton on August 05, 2011 at 06:24 pm

    It would be very easy to say that the second treatment, where the practitioner is in a state of Oneness, would be more profound. I also think that this is more likely to be the case. However, I think that, from a reality place, it’s impossible to say.

    From the descriptions of the 2 sessions, it appears that the second session is likely to have less barriers and baggage going on. The practitioner in the first session is bringing some assumptions to the session and these may have an effect on the session.  The practitioner in the second session appears to be unemcumbered by these assumptions so there should be more freedom within the session.

    So, I’m tempted to say the second will be more profound. However, this judgement can’t really be made except by being there as the client or practitioner, or both…
    I think the honest answer is, it’s impossible to really know. We can only give an answer based on logic, and that’s not really enough.

    Rebecca

  2. by Hilary McPhee on August 05, 2011 at 06:34 pm

    I believe that the essence of reiki practice is revealed in session 2. That’s not to say I am always able to be in that state of oness but that is my intent . I always remember that I am just part of the circuit :)

  3. by Jessica Brown on August 05, 2011 at 06:38 pm

    I agree with Rebecca.  The second treatment relies on fewer assumptions and barriers to the true notion of Reiki energy.  The first treatment degrades the notion of Reiki energy, placing boundaries on its’ function and flow.  And it is our ability to perceive this flow in our mind and feel it within us that gives Reiki its’ effectiveness.  Although it is fine to describe the function of Reiki energy as per the first treatment, the second treatment integrates this notion in a more complete way.  The second treatment in essence contains the first treatment….?  It is a more accurate description of the presence and function of Reiki.  To experience the first treatment, you are really experiencing the second…

  4. by NanLT on August 05, 2011 at 07:25 pm

    Both have the potential to be very profound and meaningful for both the giver and the recipient. The first option is the one most people are taught at a beginning level, and many never move beyond that. The second option is an ideal which I have not yet fully achieved in 20 years practice, but am working towards.

    One of the greatest lessons I learned in using Reiki was that it did not have to only travel through my hands to the recipient nor did it need to be limited to what my rational mind thought was possible.

  5. by kathi richards on August 05, 2011 at 07:45 pm

    2
    Why? We are all one.

  6. by Clive Osborne on August 05, 2011 at 08:25 pm

    As I read the article by Sundar Kadayam on August 05, 2011, felt a sense of recognition of where i myself am at this moment, as to the question posed by Fran, Session 2 is the only way I have always understood about Reiki, I received my Level 3 in Reiki on the 28th April 2004 in Charters Towers, Queensland,  but just because I have it doesn’t make me a master, some thing is missing for me, I don’t know what it is or how to fix it, I am so glad the Sundar has found “it”, I have been over the last 12 months been trying to find the missing part, in this journey I have spoken to Phyllis Furumoto Sensei only to discover that there were mistakes in my Lineage Chart, and that while I really try to follow Mikao Usui Sensei I find out that Hawayo Takata Sensei did not teach or practice the Reiki the same way she learnt from Dr Hayashi Sensei. Because of this I feel kind of cheated.
    Takata also modified the Usui System by creating her own hand positions method she called the Foundation Treatment, so how can I claim to teach the Usui Way when it isn’t the same?.
    From what I read about Frans from Sundar Kadayam I am be starting to believe I should redo the whole Reiki training again as I feel he may hold the answer to what it is I am missing.
    Blessings to all, Clive

  7. by Malena on August 05, 2011 at 08:25 pm

    In Reiki 1 I was told that option 1 was what was happening. During mastership I was told that option 2 was the real one. To me it has been a gradual process.

  8. by Sue Lake-Harris on August 05, 2011 at 08:50 pm

    I was disappointed to see an obvious bias in the way the two possible treatment practitioners and possible experiences and perceptions were described…

    I embrace the “feeling” of both descriptions - when I work with someone and Reiki, Reiki is within us and around us and we are connected in a way the evokes a sensation of oneness. Yet we are not “one” in a literal sense - we are still who we are, wherever we are in our journeys, and Reiki is not under my (nor the other person’s) direction - it is simply there - within and around… Spiritual oness is most definitely a possibility,  but those who don’t embrace this concept shouldn’t be made to feel “wrong” - why not just let them discover where their Reiki experiences take them?

    What we “know” about Reiki, as opposed to what we feel, perceive, or believe, will not be true for everyone. So either description regarding a treatment should not be regarded as the right or wrong way of conceiving or doing things, but simply “one way” to perceive the experience…

    ...and there are many more…

  9. by ragu on August 05, 2011 at 10:03 pm

    couldn’t agree more with the comments by Sue Lake-Harris - the descriptions provided are more theoretical than actual/practical - I guess to invite discussion. Do not agree with it as ti is described. I also have problems with the concept of a person thinking that he is reiki rather than acting as a medium of a higher energy - even though I subscribe to the concept of ‘all is one and one is all’.

  10. by Stephen on August 05, 2011 at 10:15 pm

    Session 2 I think is the goal to strive to obtain. Do not send, just receive/be and get out of the way.

  11. by Julie on August 05, 2011 at 10:16 pm

    When starting a hands on healing I give intent to be an open and clear channel for Reiki to flow.  I ask the client (in their head) to give intent to receive what ever it is they need at this time and it be for their higest and greatest good.  I also ask them to connect with their breath and to be a watcher of the in breath and the out breath allowing their being to be filled with Reiki.  I then settle into my breath as well knowing it will be flowing in through all of my being.  There is time during the session where my mind is occupied by thoughts and when that happens I acknowledge the thoughts and let them drift off and return to being a watcher of my breath.
    Because we are all part of the flow of energy all merges as one.  However we are humans and our mind does see the client as external from ourselves.  For me in my heart I know all is ONE and my SOUL knows all is one.  I feel both will be profound if the giver is coming from their heart and not their head(ego).
    I have just had a thought that says it is not up to us to make a judgment about how profound the treatment will be because it is the client who is accessing the amount of energy that comes into their body, so the profoundness will be from the client as their experiance not from the practitioner.  We would have our own profundness of the session for ourselves.

  12. by Mary Murray on August 05, 2011 at 10:44 pm

    Hi All
    Clive I would recommend sitting your reiki again with Frans if you can. i also felt something was missing from my first teacher and Frans has filled in the missing gaps. your daily practise, the precepts, meditations, hands- on- healing. His teachings are simple, clear and very profound. If you want to meet someone who is in the bright white light then go met Frans.
    With the question i have come from a practise that thought the first way, giving reiki and then learning with Frans that we are reiki I now find the connection is deeper and clearer for both the coient and myself and we are reiki and are one.

  13. by Anthony on August 05, 2011 at 10:44 pm

    The second definition sounds more `spiritual` by the layman`s definition of spirituality, and more inline with the modern western Reiki thinking. So many would profess to be doing the second, or to have that as a goal. However, the first one is correct, and is also more inline with the Japanese definition of Reiki which is quite different to the American fairytale people are given.

  14. by Chris Smith on August 05, 2011 at 11:39 pm

    I beleive Session 2 would be a far more profound experience.  To me, Reiki is not something to be turned on and off,it is a lifestyle.  Living the precepts, rather than just memorizing and reciting them.  Oneness, no attachment, Middle Way—when one understands and tries to live by those concepts, there is no “other,” separate from the practitioner.

  15. by Sue Lake-Harris on August 05, 2011 at 11:52 pm

    A very Buddhist comment from Chris, yet Reiki is accessible even if you are not in the space of oneness and other Buddhist concepts…

    Even Buddhism permits strong feelings as aspects of being human - this is where the precepts stem from!

    So, everyone leaving comment here, regardless of how “human” we are in expressing ourselves, let us “show compassion to all living things” (which includes being kind to ourselves).

  16. by Susan da Fonseca on August 06, 2011 at 12:09 am

    I was also taught that Session 1 is what is happening during a Reiki session.  However, Session 2 is probably more effective since we are all one.  We need to practice Being.  We are humans being.  If we could just be less humans doing.  The first session seems to be more about the doing.  We need to get our of our own way to be able to give the most effective sessions. Allowing is also a component of that being.

  17. by Chris Smith on August 06, 2011 at 12:23 am

    Stated in “Buddhist” words, perhaps, but the concepts are universal.  Christian mystics, among others, espouse the same ideas. :)

    When I say “oneness” its not with the idea of reliquishing our individual “humanness” or autonomy.  Its the idea that we are all what we are because of everything that exists and happens around us.  Each is still an inidividual, yet we would not be what/who we are but for the influences of everything and everyone around us around us.  Coupled with the idea that each deicision we make and each action we take effects all others around us. In that sense we are “one.” “Its a Wonderful Life!”

  18. by Sukhada Smith-Repass on August 06, 2011 at 12:47 am

    I would say session 2. The Practitoner is seeing Reiki as being all around us. It is Life Force Energy so it is the very air we breathe. The Practitioner is not making a distinction between herself, Reiki & the client. The energy is free flowing.

  19. by Elisabeth Rose Wilds on August 06, 2011 at 01:47 am

    The second option reminds me of what most spiritual traditions talk about in transcending ego.  When we transcend ego, we become an empty vessel and spirit flows in.  This would be similar to living in a state of grace.

    Frans, I have a question about meditation, but this might not be the forum to discuss it.  Can I email you directly?

  20. by Kris Azzarello on August 06, 2011 at 01:49 am

    Session 2 is for me the more profound experience, both from the standpoint of practitioner and as the client.  As a practitioner, realizing that we are all one and all Reiki, it frees me from my ego’s chatter and questions about How am i doing?  What do I need to “fix” in the client?  Is the client getting what they need?  I can simply BE; with the Reiki, with the client.  As a client, I can relax in the knowledge that both the practitioner and I are floating in that great ocean of energy together. I don’t have to worry about what the practitioner feels he or she needs to do TO me to fix something in me.  When you are more aware of being than doing than all your “stuff” (both client and practitioner’s) doesn’t color your intent or actions. A very beautiful thing!

  21. by Adela Alvarez on August 06, 2011 at 02:11 am

    In the beginning of my Reiki practice 8 yrs. ago I would say it all began like Session 1. Now after I have lived the beauty and connection of Reiki, I can experience it in a more holistic way. Distant healing sessions has taught me how real Reiki is like Session 2. I sense, I feel, I connect - we are one. The true essence of Reiki. This has allowed me to evolve and continue to grow with every experience.

  22. by francine hershkowitz on August 06, 2011 at 02:41 am

    It is always good to be able to let go of the doing and be   in   being.  When my mind is quiet and open to awareness,  the imaginary boundaries dissolve,  allowing my true nature to shine.

  23. by Farah Irani on August 06, 2011 at 04:26 am

    I believe both will be equally profound. I don’t think the practitioner’s beliefs control reiki’s effects. The energy will affect the person (and the practitioner) in the way and to the level that they are supposed to be affected.

  24. by Paul Norden on August 06, 2011 at 05:22 am

    Most of the time I perceive myself and others as separate from me, but sometimes when I do a treatment or my personal practice, things can ‘soften’ and the sense of separateness loosens to reveal more the true nature of reality.  I know three things are important: 1) receiving teachings from an experienced teacher about the nature of relative and absolute reality. 2) experiencing it directly, and 3) practice, practice, practice!

  25. by Susan on August 06, 2011 at 05:31 am

    What a wonderful and lively discussion! 
    About 30 years ago I began practicing Therapeutic Touch in my nursing work with disabled children.  I was introduced to Reiki about 13 years ago and it was just like finding the perfect fit that I was really seeking.  I can only say that each day is a better one and I have grown over time in my understanding and love for the practice of Reiki. 
    I would hate to think that what I offered to the students of long ago, was ‘less than’ or ‘ineffective’  but consider it to be offering the best that I could with the materials I had at hand at the time.  I was witness, those many years ago, to the benefits that the Therapeutic Touch bestowed on the students. 
    If we truly practice the precept of - Do not worry, fear is a distraction - whatever we are doing to bring peace, love and compassion into our world is a good thing, whatever our approach may be.  Seen in that light, I consider both sessions to be profound. 
    The years that I have been gifted with have allowed me to grow my spiritual self in varied and delightful ways.  I love being a ‘forever student’. 
    I extend my thanks to Frans and Bronwen and am grateful that they have grown their practice of Reiki in this manner and created this forum to engage a wonderfully diverse, outspoken and engaged community.

  26. by Christina Natichioni on August 06, 2011 at 05:55 am

    I am new to this community but have been bing/using Reiki since 1986.  My original teacher David Jarrell was very clear that we do not send or channel energy but we are helping others and ourselves realize that this wonderful healing Reiki is there for all of us, all of the time.
    I have discovered the more I can get out of the way, the better it is for everyone.  I’m excited to begin studying with Frans and Bronwen and look forward to meeting them in person some day soon.

  27. by Joe Moon on August 06, 2011 at 06:52 am

    For me, the very idea that Reiki enery is flowing seems to have a dualistic quality.  Flowing from where to where?  It is with a mind toward oneness that we begin to see our attachments to a conceptual (necessarily dualistic) mode of mind activity.  Perhaps the sensation of flowing, which I admit is quite palpable, is more like immersing oneself in a pool of vibrational essence that differs from what we have become comfortable with in our own practice (the various byosen effects?) no matter how advanced in beingness we have become.  I have a sense that in advanced practice that the sensation of energy flowing is replaced by something else but I am open to the possibility that this is just another manifestation of conceptual thinking.  I think in this sense option 2 seems to be of that character where energy is no longer perceived as flowing from one area to another but is in and of itself present.  I believe option 2 to be a very useful construct for beginning the journey out of the jungle of anger and fear and into the light realm

  28. by Joe Moon on August 06, 2011 at 06:57 am

    Oopsie..In my last sentence I meant option 1 is very useful construct for those beginning their journey

  29. by Susan Vander Burght on August 06, 2011 at 07:38 am

    Session 2 is clearly the most powerful and beneficial.  Focusing upon a state of ONENESS removes the ego aspect, whereas Session 1 illustrates an ego-centric approach.  By removing ego, we meld more naturally with spiritual energy and thus Reiki flows more freely in the timeless space of ONENESS.

  30. by Janet Johnson on August 06, 2011 at 07:45 am

    First of all, Thank You Frans for posting this question for contemplation!

    I found it interesting to note that emotions seemed to surface first in response.
    Your question did not involve right or wrong and yet mental programming (mine at least) was immediately engaged in the determination of right and wrong, better or worst.

    I decided to carefully re-examine the actual question:
    Below are presented two hands on healing sessions. Which one do you think will be the most profound one and why?

    No mention of right or wrong. Ok. I find it very grounding to look up words in the dictionary and my favorite definition of the word “profound” was the poetic/literary definition - ” the vast depth of the ocean”. For good measure I also looked up the word “answer” as it feels full of pressure for me “to be right”. I was surprised and relieved to note that the definition of answer is simply - “a reaction to a question”.

    Whew!!!

    My Answer:
    I have experienced both case scenarios in hands on healing.

    In the first case there is a lot of fear present. Will healing take place? Are my hands in the right place? Is the session too short or too long? What is the recipient feeling? Blah, blah, blah. The list is potentially infinite. All the while I am sporadically dueling with the mind. In the end healing does appear to take place but there is a tension left within me.

    In the second case scenario there is peace and effortlessness. The feeling of the “vast depth of the ocean” is there and mental wanderings cease. When it comes to a natural conclusion, I have to look at a clock to know how long it has been. I am in a profound place of peace and feel very light. Doingness is gone, so the heaviness of responsibility for results also vanishes. My goal is to keep working on myself so that every moment of every day can be .......(there seems to be no word to put here).
    Be is perfect.

  31. by Joe Moon on August 06, 2011 at 08:56 am

    I would recognize that hand anywhere

  32. by jay steiner on August 06, 2011 at 10:06 am

    Drawing from my own personal experience, session #1 is how I felt as a new practitioner.  Over time with experience doing hands-on and especially distant treatments, I developed into session #2.  I believe that the “feeling” of oneness for me certainly was and still is an ever growing expansion of my intuitive abilities.
    I continue to learn and feel something new with every session I am a part of.

  33. by Sue Lake-Harris on August 06, 2011 at 10:47 am

    It is interesting to see the various responses.

    I want to make a comment on the assertion that session one is egocentric - what is egocentric about being a “garden hose” that energy flows through to reach the recipient? Given that the energy is simply there and moves/ebbs/flows (yes, energy does flow, and this can clearly be seen in physics and astronomy, even in our own bodies as electical impulses flow to carry instructions down the nerve paths), it is the perception around what is happening that can make people concerned about “hand positions” etc.

    When students first start, many worry about “getting it right”, or even that they might be the first person in a class who “doesn’t get it” at all and so on. The precepts are wonderfully reassuring here in terms of “do not worry”. Fear doesn’t get in the way of Reiki, but it can get in the way of experiencing it deeply…

    In the long run, Reiki itself is enormously profound and as we are all individual, while there may be similarities, there will also be differences.

    Regardless of the perception a practitioner or recipient holds, the Reiki will be there. As my teacher’s teacher used to say “Trust!”

  34. by Frans Stiene on August 06, 2011 at 10:48 am

    Hi All,

    Great to see all the responses.

    I agree with you Hilary, our intent is the first step, without intent nothing happens.

    Janet, you hit the hammer on the nail, it doesn’t say that one treatment is wrong or right! This is why we need to always carefully read what is written down else we get the wrong impression.
    More on this question later…

  35. by Vicki Starfire on August 06, 2011 at 11:18 am

    Since I am a palmist as well as a Reiki Master, I’d like to know whose palm is featured on this blog question? This person is a good healer but needs to watch out for air and water pollution and chemical additives in food. The strong horizontal like in the lower left side is called a “poison line”, but it actually helps this person to avoid the things we all should stay away from. I suspect this is Frans’ hand as the shape is similar to his.

  36. by Bronwen Stiene on August 06, 2011 at 11:33 am

    Love it Vicki! Actually, although Frans does have lovely long fingers these aren’t his - I just got the image from a photo repository. Sorry Joe too. Next time we’ll put up Frans’ - Vicki I’m sure he’d love a reading :-)))).

  37. by Joe Moon on August 06, 2011 at 12:50 pm

    Ah Sue…as a physicist I daily measure the transfer of energy from one medium to another.

    To cut to the chase and skip all the cryptic science mumbo-jumbo expounded here go to directly to “X”.

    Scientists have deduced but not absolutely proven that this energy can be neither created nor destroyed but the medium receiving the energy may tranform it into another form. Here is a concrete example in terms of vibrational energy transformation or Light frequency shifting.  Here it is the same energy but in different form. In this application infrared (red) light is spontaneously transformed into blue (ultraviolet) by passage thrugh a non-reactive medium (KDP crystal).  See #5 here:
    https://lasers.llnl.gov/about/nif/seven_wonders.php
    Here is an interesting discovery from nuclear physics circa 1940’s.  When stimulated,ground state atoms (grounded?) emit characteristic frequencies of light (flourescence and at higher levels of excitation x and gamma-rays (not same as the gamma range in the mind mirror measurements). These same atoms in their ground state absorb energy at these exact same frequencies!  So we have at the atomic level the phenomenon of equanimity!  It is interesting to note that atoms in their excited state can remain stuck there for a very long time but always revert to their ground state by transformation and emission of the excess energy that they had “absorbed’ in becoming “excited”  each atom’s excited state returns to ground state with a characteristic time called its half-life.  The return to ground is theorized to be dependent on the probability of interaction with a universal force/condition that facilitates the transformation back to ground state.  For long-lived excited states the coincidental encounter with such a force is a universally rare occurence.  these are characterized by a very slight excitation level.  All the very short half-lived excitation states have a very high excitation level.  This means that the energetic encounter that facilitates grounding of these highly excited states is fairly common in the universe.
    X All that said,  It is very comforting to know that for me, since my societal and parental and perhaps even my karmic conditioning has raised me up to an “excited” state that can be conceived of as other than “grounded”, that in time, I will become grounded weather I fight it or not…grounded to my native state.  I like to think that successive approximation is at work here and that each teacher who appears (...when the student is ready, the teacher will appear…) brings one a bit closer to grounded than they were before the encounter…some more than others.

    What I was trying to communicate in my previous post and as you appropriately pointed out we are all individuals and as such exist in various energetic configurations.  My bungling attempt to elucidate the “human” grounding phenomenon in terms of a blanket rejection of energy flowing between client and practitioner was ineffective.  My apologies if I struck a nerve there.

    What I was attempting to convey was a returning to a closer to grounded state described not in terms of a flow of energy but rather as an interaction of two individual energetic states of being. 

    Because we are all human we have the capaicty to vibrate (exist) in our most grounded state.  It is like when two identical musical instruments, say two violins, are located in proximity to one another.  When one violin is played, you can actually feel the harmonic vibration of the other violin by touching its surface even though it itself is not being played.  What I am trying to convey is the possibility

  38. by Joe Moon on August 06, 2011 at 12:54 pm

    Hi Bronwen,
    They are quite similar…I was so sure! Yet another fantasy dashed into the hard brick wall of reality.
    :-)
    Joe

  39. by Denyce Peyton on August 06, 2011 at 01:02 pm

    I have experienced both of these scenarios in sessions. My earlier teaching referenced practitioners as channels of Reiki. As I transform my development and practice in the system of Reiki, I find that “being Reiki” enables focus, centering and the ability to feel the oneness of the space with myself and the client. I continue to transform to being Reiki rather than doing Reiki. My intent is evolving more into being the great bright light instead of performing a Reiki session or meditation as a process, external to myself.

    Thank you for posting such an interesting question for us to ponder!

    Denyce

  40. by Marion on August 06, 2011 at 01:20 pm

    I would say out of your two choice number 2.
    I look at Reiki as love energy or Universal Love Energy so when you are “Doing Reiki” you really are imparting the healing energy of Love
    Mazzy :)
    Love, Light & Laughter

  41. by Frans Stiene on August 06, 2011 at 02:11 pm

    Elizabeth feel free to email me directly, you can do this through the contact page on the website.

    Below is a quote about the act of giving, the way of giving described in this quote is said to be the purest level of compassion, because the ego is taken out of the picture. For me this quote is talking about a deep level of understanding of the precept taught within the system of Reiki, show compassion to yourself and others.

    <start> We say that the giver, receiver, and the gift itself are empty and peaceful. This is our standard for dana paramita [the very best way of giving] the giver is empty of self, the receiver is empty of self, and the thing given is empty of self. Simply selfless. Without this wisdom, giving is an ego trip. How can we cross over to a life where benefiting others is more important than our own self-interests? Unsurpassable giving is realizing that there is no one who possesses and that there is nothing to possess. When we realize this, giving and receiving is done without any thought of loss or gain.
    Sensei Egyoku <end>

  42. by Chris on August 06, 2011 at 02:39 pm

    My reiki sessions start out similar to description #1 and flow into description #2.
    To a first time reiki recipient, I would describe it to them using #1 as an example.
    I don’t think there’s anything “incorrect” with either one. Reiki flows.

  43. by NanLT on August 06, 2011 at 08:51 pm

    More thinking over this question as I read other responses and let it percolate in the back of my brain.

    As I develop as a more Intuitive Reiki Healing Facilitator I find that I actually am doing a combination of both scenario 1 and scenario 2. I merge myself in the energies of the recipient to discover intuitively where the energy needs to go or what work needs to be done, then actively direct the energy.

    When removing stagnated energies I will seek to find both the areas of stagnation and the areas of blockage, and the places where a “hole” may have been formed to release the pressure from the blockage. This takes an active participation on my part. How I work to patch, unblock, and release is done on a more intuitive level.

    As for which is more profound, I haven’t really thought about it because as the facilitator for healing it isn’t my goal to reach a state of profoundness within my own being.

    For the recipient, well…. I can say that I have received both versions and found both to be moving and profound in their own way.

  44. by wild on August 06, 2011 at 11:51 pm

    Both practitioners have different maps/descriptions/interpretations of the same thing. 

    Practioner 1 is using a model based on duality - which for me was a great introduction to the idea of reiki treatments and is easy to understand for all. As a lot of recipients are looking for treatments for physical or emotional problems this is a great way to explain reiki to someone who has yet to meet the concept of non duality.

    Practitioner 2 is using a model based on non duality or oneness which is something I comprehend intellectually and thru practice will improve.

    I think both the treatments have equal potental to be profound if the intent is there for the recipient to receive what ever they need.

  45. by Heather Robb on August 07, 2011 at 01:23 am

    I always say that we simply surrender to the process with love . We leave ego, intellect, expectation and id behind and become it. I like the saying   ‘we become hollow bones.’ In this way we are how number 2 describes it and in this way we do not hamper the natural process of the Reiki energy. We are that energy and live it.  The old saying “I am that I am ” holds deep frequency and when we can go into that —we understand/feel our connection to all things as one aspect of the whole. Reiki is an aspect of this in the same way. We are all one and so as we work in divine flow we encompass that. But in all things—if we are love and hold pure intent what is needed is given.

  46. by Janet Dimagly on August 07, 2011 at 01:24 am

    Stupid question. This group has gotten superficial.

  47. by Rebecca Holton on August 07, 2011 at 02:46 am

    I think that it may be what you make it.
    Most Buddhist koans look pretty stupid if treated superficially.
    I’m not suggesting that this forum subject is a koan (although it could serve the function of one), but saying it’s a stupid question does not seem very useful. Or are you flaming us?

    Rebecca

  48. by June on August 07, 2011 at 08:10 am

    I have experienced both just as some of your other students, as a Master I like to think I try to be one with Reiki and all that is, the teacher side of me can seperate the processes as your questions suggest, if the love, compassion and above all intention is there Reiki will get through providing the client will accept as in essence the final healing/say is with them, and that is not passing the buck. We are taught to sense the energy intitially, that is why we would experience your first question, once we let go and become, we answer your second question. Namaste

  49. by Frans Stiene on August 07, 2011 at 10:37 am

    Reading/listening - contemplating - direct experience

    To really get what is being read or said we need to contemplate and hopefully one day have a direct experience of what has been read or heard.
    Like Janet Johnson for example, she contemplated the question and realized that it doesn’t state that one session is right or wrong. She also discovered that “an answer” is simply “a reaction to a question”.
    Or like Rebacca, who states it is like a Koan, and again a Koan needs to be contemplated.

    So there is another layer to this question and if you feel like it, see if you can discover it. To give you a hint, it hasn’t really been discussed yet.

  50. by Colin Powell on August 07, 2011 at 10:40 am

    I agree with several of the posters here in that both hypothetical sessions could be as profound as each other. The effect of Reiki is not under the control (or belief system) of the practitioner. Reiki is Reiki. However, since it is universal i.e. everywhere, how can it flow from A to B when it is always at A and B? Rather than as someone said “Reiki flows”, I prefer to say “Ki flows, Reiki glows!”

    I think that once we become aware of Reiki (through our Reiju/attunement/initiation) we can, through intent or even just being in a situation where there is some imbalance begin to sense the glow or Reiki (our inner Great Bright Light, if you will), which, can then affect the Great Bright Light of another being, restoring the natural balance of that being, whilst re-enforcing our own natural balance. This state of balance can also be seen as a state of non-duality in that it is neither good nor bad, positive nor negative it is simply the natural state of balance or true nature of things.

    So, both sessions could be profound though either practitioner could become drained and start to use their own personal energy if they begin to intellectualise too much about the session!

  51. by Frans Stiene on August 07, 2011 at 12:55 pm

    Hi Colin,
    Thanks for your input. With Ki do you mean the Ki as explained in Taoism? If so you might enjoy reading this description of Reiki (Chinese - Ling Chi) from a Taoist Author Daniel Reid:
    <start> Ling-chi (spiritual energy). Ling-chi is the subtlest and most highly refined of all the energies in the human system and the product of the most advanced stages of practice, whereby the ordinary energies of the body are transformed into pure spiritual vitality. This type of highly refined energy enhances spiritual awareness, improves all cerebral functions, and constitutes the basic fuel for the highest level of spiritual work, such as gestating the ‘Spiritual Embryo (ling-tai) of immortality, attaining the enlightened state of mind and achieving the body of pure light known as the ‘Rainbow Body,’ which serves as a vehicle of entry into the astral realms of existence beyond the material world. <end>
    There might even be a hint in this which is related to another layer of the blogs question, see my comment number 49.

  52. by Joe Moon on August 07, 2011 at 02:41 pm

    Very interesting.

    i’m wandering through a fog here hoping to catch a glimpse of the elusive.

    some internal set of conditions must initiate/perpetuate the transformation of these ordinary body energies into pure spiritual energy.  I have a sense that intent is a very important component of these conditions but not in the sense of “intending” to transform the ordinary energies. This seems like it would entail “doing” something.  Perhaps it is intent that lays the ground for spontaneous transformation of the ordinary to the purely spiritual. intent being perhaps a vehicle for transformation… like a magic carpet. Then maybe it is NOT doing that allows the space for the ordinary to transform into spiritual essence.  NOT engaging the ordinary energy in “doing” activities perhaps frees it to transform into its true essence.

    Is this why our personal practice strengthens our connection to the great bright light.

    There is this capacity within each of us to access the Reiki that already abides there.  Is it more like taking the shade off a lamp that is already lit then?  Is intent then the bellows that fans the inner flame?

    Still poking about in the fog hoping it will clear

  53. by Frans Stiene on August 07, 2011 at 03:23 pm

    Hi Joe,
    Intent is definitely a component but as we all know it is not enough. We can intent something to happen but that doesn’t make it necessarily happen.

  54. by Grace Tam on August 08, 2011 at 12:27 am

    I briefly tried both methods on my non believer/skeptical partner. Method 1 was much easier to perform because I am still at the stage where I mostly see everything as separate existance. I understand that everything is one, but I don’t understand it energetically. So trying method 2 took some time for me to get into that state of oneness. Which method was more profound? From who’s perspective? From mine, I liked the energy in the second method. But for my non believer partner, he doesn’t feel any different regardless. Does that mean that because I liked the energy in the second method more that it I’d more profound? Not really. Both method works. It’s more about whether or not I’m energetically understanding method 1 or 2. That’s just my opinion. But ultimately, I believe that the more I practice, the more profound my treatments will be.

  55. by Colin Powell on August 08, 2011 at 03:25 am

    Hi Frans,
    Thanks for the Daniel Reid quote. It is from his Qi Gong book about harnessing the universe, yes?
    I do tend to feel that Ki is the origin of everything, the ground state. Here is a quote for you, from Koichi Tohei’s Book of Ki:
    <start> ” Ki is the basic unit of the universe.
    It is the infinite gathering of infinitely small particles.
    Everything is ultimately composed of Ki.
    If you pursue this concept to the depth of human Consciousness, you will understand the universal mind which governs all creation, loving and protecting life…
    Everything originates from Ki.<end>
    I think that Reiki may arise within this Ki as a spiritually induced phenomenon in order to bring balance and harmony (or unity or original nature) back to that area of the Universal Ki field or simply as a result of spiritual activity in general.

  56. by Meredith McKell Graff on August 08, 2011 at 08:52 am

    Both perspectives are valid.  We are conduits for Reiki Energy but we also embody Reiki energy as do all things on the physical plane.  There is separation, because that is the nature of the physical plane perspective and there is no separation because that is our natural state.  To create a “right” or “wrong” way or to see Reiki as outside oneself is a false dicotomy.

  57. by wild on August 08, 2011 at 12:01 pm

    session one appears to have 3 elements to which discrete doing happens; and
    session two appears to have 1 element in which being is and that being is continous

    [ I am curious about the other layer that has not appeared in the discussion yet - can hint some more?]

  58. by Frans Stiene on August 08, 2011 at 12:25 pm

    Hi Colin,
    The quote is from : Daniel Reid “Chi-gung: Harnessing the Power of the Universe” .
    Thanks for the quote from Koichi. 
    Koichi also states “Everything is ultimately composed of Ki”.
    Some people called this “Ki” Reiki, rather than Ki alone. (Remember that the word Reiki has been around long before “the system of Reiki” was developed.) And by using the word Reiki, the SPIRITUALITY of Ki is then emphasized.
    So we could say “Everything is ultimately composed of Reiki” as well.
    On an ultimate level Ki, Reiki, Universe, Buddha, Tao, you name it, is non-dual, so if I keep seeing these from a dualistic perspective it will be very hard for me to re-discover this ultimate level. I think the first step for a spiritual practice is to realize intellectually that everything is Ki, Reiki, Universe, Buddha, Tao, or whatever. This will make the path so much clearer and easier to follow.
    I have worked with and discussed Ki, Qi, Reiki, Tao, with quite a few Chinese Qi Gong masters and they all say the same thing: Ki, Qi, Tao, Reiki is in essence all the same, only the methods to realize this are different. It is like a bright light hitting a crystal, when the bright light goes through it we see lots of different colors but the essence of these colors is the bright light. However most of the time we do not see this and we only focus on, and get side-tracked by, the colors.

  59. by Frans Stiene on August 08, 2011 at 02:30 pm

    Here are a couple of hints to help with discovering another level to the question.
    (Make sure you keep in mind the precepts, especially being honest. This means that we need to look at the question honestly and also reply to it as honestly as we can)

    Both hands on healing sessions have the potential to be profound, yet…

    Hints:
    If you have a terminal illness, who do you go to: a medical student or a specialist? Why?
    If you want your gas leak fixed, who do you go to: a friend who can do a bit of welding or the qualified gas fitter? Why?
    If you want to learn advanced scientific theory, who do you go to: a grade 7 student or a science professor? Why?
    If you want to learn how to play guitar, who do you go to: a beginner or a professional musician? Why?
    If you want a hands-on healing session, who do you go to: someone who just completed a Reiki course or someone who has re-discovered the great bright light within herself through the system of Reiki? Why?

  60. by Donna Cook on August 08, 2011 at 04:54 pm

    What a fantastic question, and the varity of answers were also very interesting to me. 
    I have sort learning in a variety of different forms of energy healing including a more western style of Reiki, and have had some wonderful learning and energetic experiences…but I found the teachings from Frans made more sense to me energetically. 
    Session 1: was how I was taught in one of the practices learnt… it did not fit with me personally, but that is not to say I didn’t try. I struggled to be a channel for some reason…and always felt that I wasn’t grasping the concept.  It wasn’t until I did my courses with Frans that it started to make more sense, but most importantly I felt/experienced a new joy, and confidence in working with energy.  Everything was simplified, I was like a kid in a candy store. I did more self healing, and worked with all the elements within the system of Reiki… where before these teachings I did not. I truly believe this is the key.
    Yes I agree as others have said that we are only human, and yes my energetic experiences may not have lead me to enlightenment in every sense of the word… but the precepts state “Just for Today”... So each day I’m excited and each day, each moment brings new & exciting experiences.
    I believe that if I live and breath the system of reiki, keep my intention clear and enjoy the session without judging it, then I and the receipient receive exactly what we are meant to.  Bottom line for me is that I’m not responsible for the recepients healing, I’m the practitioner and I just trust in the energy and trust that the connection will guide me to do exactly what I need to.
    So I guess my answer is Session 2, I’m happy to say I have sensed the great bright light within and whenever I dought this ... I go back to the basics, look to the precepts or work with symbol 1 or other elements within the system because I have faulted from my spiritual path somehow and need to get back on track again I guess. One thing I know in my heart is:
    We are Reiki!
    We are interconnected ... this just feels so right to me. It is a continual journey for us all.

  61. by Rebecca Holton on August 08, 2011 at 07:25 pm

    I saw this quote this morning:
    “How did the sea gain kingship of a hundred streams?
    Because it took the lower position.
    Hence, it is king of a hundred streams.

    ~ Lao Tzu

    I think this might be where this question is going.
    Why choose a little stream when you can have the whole ocean?
    Why choose an apprentice when you can have a teacher?

    Session 1 is a little stream - it is part of the ocean and is not separate from it. However, it isn’t the whole of it.
    Session 2 is the ocean. It contains all the others and, although not separate from them, it has realised it contains everything.

    Rebecca

  62. by Frans Stiene on August 08, 2011 at 07:33 pm

    Hi Rebecca,
    That pretty much sums it up.
    We will be putting up a blog soon which follows this up.

  63. by Joe Moon on August 09, 2011 at 02:22 am

    Well said Rebecca.

    streams flow
    Oceans wave
    only the surface
    disturbed by turmoil above
    and below a deep abiding calm

    English proverb:
    still waters run deep

  64. by Elly on August 09, 2011 at 02:24 am

    Thanks, Frans and Bronwen, for providing this excellent forum! My own practice is this: Set your intent, then set yourself aside. Put your hands down. Allow Reiki to show the recipient’s body that it is loved, whatever its state, whatever its attractiveness, not for any gain on your part but simply because it is. This is the healing power, the ultimate power, of Reiki. We are not separate. We are not anything outside the Creation, but all one within the Creation. The purpose of Reiki is to bring everyone back from their separateness and misery into wholeness, completion, acceptance with all that is. Thank you again for pointing that out.

  65. by Janet Johnson on August 09, 2011 at 04:11 am

    Rebecca Thank you for the wonderful quotation!

    It beautifully addresses the “Why?” part of Frans’ question. I am grateful for the opportunity to contemplate this question with such an ernest, wise and thoughtful group of students!

    In my own contemplation the word “acceptance” keeps surfacing. In looking at keys to open ourselves to the state of oneness there needs to be intention and another ingredient. I went back again to the dictionary. This time to look up acceptance. It said “the action of consenting to receive”. Wow.
    In my experience, when I can accept all that is equally without judgement or labels, I find myself in that state of oneness.

  66. by Frans Stiene on August 09, 2011 at 10:46 am

    When we look at Rebecca’s answer, little stream and ocean, we can see something in this. How does the practitioner gets from a little stream to an ocean, personal practice! This is what the next blog is about, (up soon) how does personal practices ties in with doing hands on healing. Intent is not enough, we all know this. I can intent to “be Reiki” but then anger, worry, fear, no true compassion etc… comes up and my intent goes out of the window. We often get side tracked as our intent is not clear enough due to our emotional attachments, like anger and worry.
    It is only in the great bright light, which is symbolized by the precepts and DKM in level III of the system of Reiki, that our intent is clear and moves at the speed of light. So practice…

  67. by Br. Mark on August 10, 2011 at 03:06 pm

    I think it is less important how we conceptualize reiki and our relationship to it than our openness to be present with reiki and those we treat. Whether I assent to the channel or the unity idea, my ego can interfere with the effectiveness of treatment. To be attached to the idea that reiki, I, and the client are one is still attachment.

    I treat with an openness to whatever may need to happen and to the needs of the client. My client may not understand or be comfortable with either position. I open my being to the light and love of the universe and join with those I treat in seeking the best and highest good. Reiki energizes that openness.

    Whatever view you subsccribe to, I would encourage you to do all in a spirit of true humility and unconditional love.

    Peace to all beings.

    Brother Mark, RPO

  68. by Frans Stiene on August 10, 2011 at 04:39 pm

    Hi Mark,
    I agree, we need to let go of all attachments, no matter what it is. However it is not that easy to suddenly let go of everything. This is why the spiritual journey is step by step. First we let go of the idea that we are separate and get used to the idea that we are all interconnected. This takes time, especially if we want to have direct experiences of this interconnectedness. Then we also need to let go of the idea that we are interconnected. Now we can be the great bright light of enlightenment, completely open, no boundaries, no here nor there, no coming or going, no giving or receiving, just Be!

  69. by j&j on August 12, 2011 at 07:00 am

    This is a wonderful presentation of the mind chatter that happens as a Reiki Practitione. It is not unlike the mind chatter when meditating and forever diminishing the more with practice. It appears, like consciousness, as we grow towards enlightment the “HE” in Section 1 and the “SHE” in Section 2 become “ONE” in the new: SECTION 3. Thank you for this, and look forward to more! Love, Light and Compassionate Action, j&j

  70. by Frans Stiene on August 17, 2011 at 11:10 am

    Hi All,
    Often during Reiki treatments people experience fear - fear that they are not doing it right, that they are vulnerable, that they aren’t what they should be. To counteract that they try to protect themselves using a variety of techniques. I’ll be discussing the pros and cons of protection tomorrow in our webclass “Being Protected & Reiki”.
    Join us!
    You can book under Online Courses here http://ihreiki.com/courses.

  71. by Linda Abbott on May 02, 2013 at 12:38 pm

    The ideas you (& others) present here about reiki energy really coming from the individual him or herself, have me thinking. So essentially, when we practice reiki with another, we’re simply helping the person ‘reawaken’ their conscious ability to heal the self.  I say “conscious” because I am reminded of the fact that our bodies can heal themselves quite well once we stop putting obstacles in their way(eg. stop eating junk food, cut out caffeine, etc.).  If I embrace your concept of the same healing energy already dwelling within us all, then reiki/& other systems, even self-taught or natural healers,  are making the mind aware of what the body already knows…and thus, healing can become self-directed on levels beyond the physical matter. So interesting! I think I will contemplate this notion for awhile…and try to absorb it. Thank you, great articles.

  72. by AG on November 14, 2016 at 03:30 pm

    From a vajrayana standpoint, the first experience corresponds to the generation stage and the second experience to the completion stage.

    In the first, you purify disease. In the second, suffering’s natural tendency to self-liberate is noticed.

    The first is invocative healing. The second is witnessed healing.

    In the first, reiki is channeled. (This is not a false understanding; it really happens this way in both cases.)
    In the second, the innate auto-healing tendency operates. (This is not a false understanding; it really happens this way in both cases.)

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